Actor John Wesley Shipp has worn many hats in the Flash franchise, beginning with his time as Barry Allen/The Flash on the original 1990 TV series. Since then, Shipp has voiced Reverse-Flash on the animated series Batman: The Brave and the Bold and played Barry's father, Henry, on the first two season of the current Flash series on the CW. And even though Henry was killed at the end of Season 2, Shipp remains an active player on the show, taking on the role of Jay Garrick (the real one, following last season's imposter), a speedster hero who defends the inhabitants of Earth-3.
Shipp's Jay Garrick will be returning in tonight's new episode, "The Present," which also serves as the midseason finale. We'll see Barry cross over to Earth-3 to seek advice on how to deal with Savitar, only to be drawn into Jay's ongoing feud with his world's version of the Trickster (Mark Hamill). Along the way, fans will learn a great deal more about what the second half of Season 3 holds in store for these speedster heroes.
We were able to chat with Shipp over the phone recently. He explained why Jay Garrick is such a different character from Henry Allen, how the relationship between the two Flashes will evolve, and why this new version of Trickster is such a drastic departure from the old one. Scroll down to find out what he had to say.
John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick in The Flash.
IGN: When you were first cast to play Henry Allen, did you have any idea you’d eventually get to be an actual speedster again?
Shipp: No. In fact, if they had come to me with the role of Jay Garrick in the beginning, I'm not sure I would have done it. Because, clearly, I was a superhero 25 years ago. I would have felt like I was competing with myself. It would have been a very weird dynamic for me to come back to The Flash as a speedster. To come back as Henry Allen - a very realistic character who's quiet, simple, truthful and has very emotionally rich scenes - I thought that I was grounding myself in reality in a comic universe. so that after two years of that and audience appreciation for that relationship, then put on a suit and come back and Flash around. I feel like I can have some fun. There's nothing to prove at this point. Whatever I had to prove in the Flash world about myself as an actor, I proved as Henry Allen. And now I feel like I can have some fun.
IGN: Now that you’ve had a chance to play Jay Garrick a few times, how would you say the role compares to Henry or even Barry on the old Flash series?
Shipp: Well, it's much closer to Barry. My Jay is very close to my Barry. In fact, when I found out I was going to be suiting up again, I went back and watched a couple episodes of the old show to kind of remind myself of what I did and to bring elements of that forward, because - what a great resource. We have our back-story all written. I was Barry! I was the speedster in the show while Jay was the speedster in the universe. And now he's suddenly confronted with this new guy who, if anything, he's faster and more powerful than Jay. So how does Jay come to terms with that? It's a very rich environment.
IGN: And it did seem like there was a very real passing of the torch when the two characters finally met at the end of Season 2.
Shipp: Yeah, yeah. And it's great because we wanted to make Jay very different from Henry. It's a real conundrum for Barry when the iron mask comes off and it's his dad who's just been killed, but he's not warm, he's not fuzzy, he's not particularly nurturing. It's sort of like Henry got him to the point where he's a full-fledged superhero. He's totally assumed the mantle, and it's totally his thing. And now Jay is like, "Okay, you're a superhero. It's big boy rules now. What are you going to do about it?" It's a completely different dynamic. I admit I miss, I have to say, the closeness. There's just no ego in between between me and Grant as Henry and Barry. There was just warmth and kindness and good parenting that was going on in those scenes. That's gone. What I get now is I get to bump up against Grant's speedster as a speedster. Where do sparks fly? How do we work together. What does that do to Jay now that he's not the only one? We've got a lot of dimension and a lot of angles to play.
IGN: Obviously Jay isn’t his father, but as Barry is coming to him for advice, do you think he's looking to him to be a father figure all the same?
Shipp: Yes, and that's what we're trying to calibrate. Clearly, the relationship between Jay and Barry - and Jay and Wally - is very highly regarded by comic book fans. It's a very warm and intimate relationship, and it's almost a father/son thing. The challenge I have, having started with Henry, is that I've got to make sure I don't lapse into Henry Allen, or it's just more of the same thing. The challenge is to build a mentor/mentee relationship that is just as vital and just as important, but in terms of temperature, in terms of tone, in terms of approach, the way we talk to each other, the way we look at each other, we come from a completely different set of circumstances. And we need to keep that separate. The last thing I want is to default to Henry Allen in my scenes as Jay Garrick, because that's the challenge, isn't it? And that's the gift I've been given by the producers to come back and do these scenes with Grant from a completely different perspective.
IGN: One of the big selling points with this new episode is that you’re getting a chance to work alongside Mark Hamill again. Was that a big thrill for you?
Shipp: Oh, yeah! First of all, I love Mark and his family. It was good to see Chelsea [Hamill's daughter] on set. It was a trip. It was great fun to see him when I was Henry and he kidnapped me from Iron Heights, but it was such a different template, and it didn't feel strange. [laughs] But suddenly, there I am in a superhero suit, and he's the Earth-3 version of the Trickster, and we're going at each other in an action scene that Barry stumbles into. As soon as they yell "Cut!" on one scene, we're nose-to-nose and Mark looks at me and says, "We're grown-ups!" [laughs] It's kind of a wacky thing to be able to do. But it helps - something [costume designer Kate Main] said is, "It's an honorable enterprise to show people that you don't have to be 25 or 30-years-old to play a superhero." That helped me, John, come to terms with 25 years later, suiting up and reentering this universe in a more active role. I don't have to be who I was 25 years ago, you know? Because Jay isn't. It's a very interesting evolution for me, personally, as an actor.
Mark Hamill as the Trickster and John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick.
IGN: And like you mentioned, the two of you have appeared on this series together before, but you were both playing very different versions of these characters. How different would you say this version of the Trickster is from the one we've seen before?
Shipp: This is the Earth-3 version of the Trickster. And you can see from the promo stills they've released that Mark has gone full-fledged artistic into it. Which is his way, making very artistic choices about, "Okay, what differentiates the Earth-3 Trickster?" We're going to get a glimpse into that [in "The Present']. And if you get a chance to talk to Mark, ask him about his artistic frame of reference and how he came up with the Trickster look. For me, it's fascinating, as seriously as he takes this world and as much as he invests in it.
IGN: I don't know if I'll get a chance to talk to him at all, but from what I understand, he looked back to The Man Who Laughs and really modeled his performance on that movie.
Shipp: Yes! So he's talked about that. Good. I'm glad people know that. Hell, I was impressed. It was an inspiration to me that he would come back and still be so specifically invested in this world and in that character. He doesn't do anything half-way, does he? It's an inspiration for me working with him in this universe again.
IGN: Even though some of this episode takes place on Earth-3, it's also the midseason finale. I've seen the trailer, and it looks like it's also going to involve Barry and Jay going up against Savitar. Are we going to see a lot more of that villain and learn what's coming up in 2017?
Shipp: Yeah, I think Jay will figure a little bit more prominently in the second half of the season. This is the beginning of that. We got introduced to Jay and who Jay is and how that relationship is different in the diner [in the episode "Paradox"]. Now we get to suit up and fight a villain, and the bonding that takes place through that experience propels us into a whole new set of circumstances. Now I have an interaction with Wally. That's going to move forward. And how easily or uneasily and comfortably or uncomfortably does Jay fit into suddenly going from being the only speedster to sort of the patriarch speedster to this bunch? It's a lot to play with.
IGN: You mentioned how there's a close relationship between Jay and Wally in the comics. With Wally just now stepping into the speedster shoes and coming to terms with those powers, is there going to be a similar relationship between the two characters in the show now?
Shipp: It's certainly indicated in the episode tomorrow night. Look for a group scene in STAR Labs, and there's a moment between Jay and Wally that lights that spark. In fact, I'm glad I knew about the relationship with Jay mentoring Wally, because I was able to imbue a moment I had with Keiynan [Lonsdale] with a bit of that. Wally just so young and eager and excited about the Speed Force, and Jay responds to that. He's so unguarded, Wally, in his enthusiasm, that Jay responds to it immediately.
IGN: One of the things we've seen this year is that they've kind of opened the doors for certain supporting characters to appear on all the DC shows. We've seen that with Reverse-Flash and Captain Cold on Legends of Tomorrow. Assuming that chance comes up, would you like to appear on a show like Legends?
Shipp: I'd love to. Absolutely. I've known Victor Garber for 25 years, and to work with Brandon [Routh] and those guys, I'd love to. In fact, our contracts are being restructured so that, when the opportunity presents itself, we can be moved sort of like chess pieces on this great, comic book chessboard that is the Berlanti Productions universe.
Jesse is a mild-mannered writer for IGN. Allow him to lend a machete to your intellectual thicket by following @jschedeen on Twitter, or Kicksplode on MyIGN.
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